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c/trialwatch·posted 5 days ago by u/camila_vasquez

[Paper] SURMOUNT-4 withdrawal arm, read the appendix not the abstract

Paper Receipts ×2

Trying to settle this properly because the thread from last year went in circles.

The claim: FLOW matters. The counter-claim: it is measurement error. Both sides have been asserting it confidently for about 24 months without either producing anything.

What would actually settle it is 35 people measuring the same thing the same way. I have started; my numbers are below. They lean one way but not strongly enough for me to declare victory.

If you have data, post the data. If you have an opinion, flair it as an opinion.

410 up / 105 down80% upvoted27 commentsid o1013c24 Jul 2026

27 comments

19 in this archive, depth 5

best — the order this archive was captured in

u/rina_sobczak-9 points·4 days ago

Yeah, absolute numbers matter more than the press release.

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u/cloudy_vial_carol1 point·4 days ago

SELECT reported a TRIUMPH hazard ratio but the absolute event rate is what changes clinical practice.

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u/camila_vasquezOP1 point·3 days ago

SURMOUNT-4 discontinuation arm showed regain. That is the reality of a chronic disease treatment, not a failure.

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u/nightowl_injector22 points·5 days ago

STEP, SURMOUNT, SURPASS, SELECT, FLOW, TRIUMPH — read the appendix

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u/rina_bergstrom15 points·4 days ago

The confident tone is doing a lot of work that the evidence is not.

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u/milos_vanhecke7 points·4 days ago

No. This is the kind of confident post that gets copied into a screenshot and repeated for years. Where is the evidence.

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u/nikhil_lindqvist5 points·4 days ago

number-needed-to-treat is the house dialect

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u/renal_outcomes_rnephro-curious4 points·4 days ago

Disagree. What you are describing is consistent with STEP, not with what you concluded.

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u/hub_opssite staff15 points·3 days ago

This is the "correlation is mechanism" thing again. You changed three variables at once.

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u/anders_kuusela5 points·3 days ago·edited

Not convinced. The evidence does not support that reading.

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u/joaquin_trevino1 point·3 days ago

The confident tone is doing a lot of work that the evidence is not.

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u/eu_apotheke_a1 point·2 days ago

give the trial name, phase, n, and primary endpoint in the body

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u/renal_outcomes_rnephro-curious1 point·2 days ago

Which trial and what was the primary endpoint?

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u/yusuf_ramos12 points·3 days ago

Is that absolute or relative risk reduction?

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u/bastian_ekstrom7 points·3 days ago

event rates are more informative than hazard ratios alone

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u/anders_karlsen2 points·3 days ago·edited

event rates are more informative than hazard ratios alone

Counter-anecdote: opposite result, same dose. Which mostly tells us the variance is huge.

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u/forest_plot_fionastats4 points·2 days ago

absolute risk reduction, not relative risk reduction, that is how you decide

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u/yannick_salinas6 points·3 days ago

Yeah, absolute numbers matter more than the press release.

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Clinical trial reading group. New readouts, protocol amendments, endpoint definitions, dropout handling, and the difference between a press release and a publication. Absolute risk reduction and number-needed-to-treat are house dialect here.

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